Pope’s Speech: Slander Cannot Be Met With Slander
Pope’s Speech: Slander Cannot Be Met With Slander
Farish A Noor
[Personal note: I am pleased to introduce a new column, “Selection,” in which I post articles written by guest commentators. I hope this to be a regular Friday feature. The essays are published with permission from the authors; I thank them for their contributions.
I am even more pleased that the inaugural essay is by Farish A Noor, whose prolific writings I have had enjoyed in the past. MBM]
Pope’s Speech: Slander Cannot Be Met with Slander
Farish A Noor
The repercussions following the statements made by Pope Benedict XVI are being felt till today, though by now the modalities of global Muslim protest have become evident and well known to close observers of political Islam. As expected, following the speech that was delivered while the Pope was in Germany recently, there have been hundreds of protests all over the Muslim world, calling on the Pope to apologize for what he had said and calling on the Western world to be sensitive to the concerns and sensibilities of Muslims the world over.
That such a reaction was forthcoming was to be expected: It has to be stated again that the choice of quotes used in the speech by the Pope was anything but enlightened, and that uttered by a man of his standing and delivered before such a public gathering, was bound to lead to a reaction on the scale that we have seen thus far. What is more, it should be noted that apart from the reaction from the Muslim world, there was little unease or disquiet about the Pope’s speech elsewhere. Proof, if any was needed, that there exists an unhealthy tolerance for abuse of Islam and Muslims in many parts of the non-Muslim world today.
Unholy Alliance
Furthermore, as it has been noted by the author Karen Armstrong, this pedestrian and common form of Islamophobia and prejudice towards Muslims has become so widespread that there now exists a common consensus between the conservatives behind the Pope and even secular Muslim-haters in the West. In her words: “Hatred of Islam is so ubiquitous and so deeply rooted in western culture that it brings together people who are usually at daggers drawn. Neither the Danish cartoonists, who published the offensive caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad last February, nor the Christian fundamentalists who have called him a terrorist, would ordinarily make common cause with the Pope; yet on the subject of Islam they are in full agreement.”
But here it pays to take a degree of objective distance from the issue and look at the matter from a broader perspective. While the comments made by the Pope were morally questionable both in their content and intention, one also has to question the logic at work in the reaction of some Muslims to the event. It has also been reported that many an Islamist group had reacted to the speech of the Pope with calls for violence and retribution: A stupid and counter-productive reaction if any, for it simply reinforces the stereotypical view (repeated in the Pope’s speech) that Islam is a religion of the sword and that Muslims are fundamentally violent.
Consider the following statements that were issued by one radical Islamist group in Iraq, said to be linked to al-Qaeda. In its press statement the Mujahideen Shura Council stated bluntly that, “We shall break the cross and spill the wine. … God will (help) Muslims to conquer Rome. … God enable us to slit their throats, and make their money and descendants the bounty of the mujahideen.” In bellicose terms bordering on the hysterical the statement then proceeded to “tell the worshippers of the cross (the Pope) that you and the West will be defeated” and that “you will only see our swords until you go back to God’s true faith Islam.” If the Pope’s speech had done damage to inter-religious dialogue, then such a reaction was calculated to ensure that the final nail would be hammered into the coffin.
Tolerating the Extremists in Our Midst
It remains an oddity till today that many Islamist groups react to provocation at a drop of a hat, and that their reactions often follow the predictable path of rhetoric and pyrotechnics. Fiery speech may gain a group some precious minutes on the television screen, but in the long run they do untold damage to the understanding and image of Islam (both in the eyes of Muslims and other faith communities) that will take ages to heal.
It would also be hypocritical for some of these Islamist groups to demand an apology from the Pope while remaining blissfully oblivious to the venomous speeches and tirades that issue forth from their own ranks, be it in the form of mosque sermons, videos, pamphlets, recordings or death threats. Muslims cannot, and should not, demand respect for our faith as long as we are not prepared to show the same respect to the beliefs of others. Yet how many Muslims have criticized the extremists and conservatives in their midst, who continue to ply the crowd with sordid stories of “Christian conspiracies” against Muslims, or with lurid accounts of the alleged “decadent, immoral” lives and values of the so-called “infidels.”
To reiterate the main point of this article: We are indeed living at a time when Muslim-Western relations are at an all-time low. It is also a fact that the divide between the Western and Muslim worlds is not a neutral one, but rather one based on unequal and unjust divisions of power, wealth and privilege. However in order to redress this imbalance and injustice on a global scale, a global view of the world is needed which sees humanity as a singular community. Divisive speech on either side of the divide will do little to help the situation; and if anything it can only perpetuate the very differentials of difference and power that is at the root of this injustice.
Stupid, insulting and even destructive comments from either community should be met with a rational voice tempered with logic and morality, and not threats of violence couched in the flimsy rhetoric of victimhood. If Muslims felt insulted by the Pope’s comments, then we need to realize that many non-Muslims likewise feel insulted by the barbed accusations and slander that have come from some self-appointed spokesmen for Islam.
Where is the solution to this? Islam reminds us that logic and reason are universal qualities inherent in all creation. To abandon the way of rational, logical discourse at this stage would not only be an abdication of the responsibility to dialogue, but would also lead to a further marginalisation of Muslims on a global level. Above all, Muslims need to remember that in our reaction to abuse and slander we are nonetheless guided by a moral principle that is higher: One cannot react to slander with even more slander; anymore than one can react to racism with even more racism. If the moral compass had been lost by the Pope, our duty – as Muslims and non-Muslims alike – should be to restore this balance, and not to let the ship of humanity flounder even more.
September 22nd, 2006 at 8:12 pm
An excellent piece of write-up.
September 22nd, 2006 at 8:46 pm
It’s troubling. The Pope’s insulting remarks has once again shattered the comfort zone of many innocent people around the world. He has been so insulated from international terrorism living within the confines of his peaceful kingdom, traditionally protect him and his predecessors, is now slipping away.
If muslims stoop that low to his(Pope) his level, retaliate and utter such iresponsible, insensitive remarks, they are no better than him.
We must co-exist irrespective of our faiths, keep the peace and practise universal goodwill. It is always the ignorant who are greatest enemy of a religion whether it be Islam, Christianity, Judiasm or Buddhism.
September 23rd, 2006 at 1:29 am
It is not troubling, the reality is in the west that there is an underlying association of terrorism with islam, how many times must we here of JI, Al Qaeda, suicide bombers, 9/11, train bombings, kidnappings resulting in the beheading broadcast over the internet? The west is and has been bombarded by images of violence in the name of islam.
The pope represents a western judeo-christian outlook and Islam right now has a serious image problem, in the US and Europe islamophobia is on the rise.
If Muslims want to gain the respect we once had, I believe we should start with our fellow muslims, the pope’s comment whilst exemplifying a negative stereotype should be looked at as a wake up call to all muslims, enough with the bombings and terror in the name of my religion! There seems to be a lacking in a equivocal condemnation of violence?
Suicide bombers are not that widely condemned by muslims, regardless of politics, they really need to be condemned in the strongest tone, be repulsive to all muslims and not be made into martyrs. Suicide coupled with and the killing of innocents, regardless of the faith of the innocents killed be it Jew or Christian in my understanding of islam is wrong.
Why is it that coverage and condemnation in muslim countries seem to put the blame on the west and hardly ever on the fellow muslim terror suspects? We should demonize these misguided muslims for the evil that they have organized. The actual act of muslim terror itself seemingly swepted under the carpet, in return anti semetism, anti judeo-christian world seems to be on the alarming rise within the muslim ummah al-mu’minin. The press in Malaysia also has to share some of the blame, in Malaysia anti-Western, anti-American or anti-Jewish sentiments run high, resulting in a myopic view that the west and judeo-christian world is the real cause of evil.
The muslim world in general is as stereotypical and myopic as the west if not worse compounded by ignorance, the hatred and phobia is not a one way street. For a single benign Pope to give a stereotypical speech, I’ve heard plenty of Muslims preaching phobia to a much greater extent, specifically Anti-Jew phobia.
My dream is for a day we can all see the good in each other and not just the evils, for this tolerance need to start at home, in the heartlands and thus the minds of Muslims, the current worrying trend of religious phobias need to be reversed. The Pope’s message should be read as a wake up call.
Salams from Brisbane and happy fasting!
September 23rd, 2006 at 1:33 am
It is not troubling, the reality is in the west that there is an underlying association of terrorism with islam, how many times must we here of JI, Al Qaeda, suicide bombers, 9/11, train bombings, kidnappings resulting in the beheading broadcast over the internet? The west is and has been bombarded by images of violence in the name of islam.
The pope represents a western judeo-christian outlook and Islam right now has a serious image problem, in the US and Europe islamophobia is on the rise.
If Muslims want to gain the respect we once had, I believe we should start with our fellow muslims, the pope’s comment whilst exemplifying a negative stereotype should be looked at as a wake up call to all muslims, enough with the bombings and terror in the name of my religion! There seems to be a lacking in a equivocal condemnation of violence?
Suicide bombers are not that widely condemned by muslims, regardless of politics, they really need to be condemned in the strongest tone, be repulsive to all muslims and not be made into martyrs. Suicide coupled with and the killing of innocents, regardless of the faith of the innocents killed be it Jew or Christian in my understanding of islam is wrong.
Why is it that coverage and condemnation in muslim countries seem to put the blame on the west and hardly ever on the fellow muslim terror suspects? We should demonize these misguided muslims for the evil that they have organized. The actual act of muslim terror itself seemingly swepted under the carpet, in return anti semetism, anti judeo-christian world seems to be on the alarming rise within the muslim ummah al-mu’minin. The press in Malaysia also has to share some of the blame, in Malaysia anti-Western, anti-American or anti-Jewish sentiments run high, resulting in a myopic view that the west and judeo-christian world is the real cause of evil.
The muslim world in general is as stereotypical and myopic as the west if not worse compounded by sheer ignorance, the hatred and phobia is definately not a one way street. For a single benign Pope to give a stereotypical speech, I have heard plenty of Muslims preaching phobia to a much greater extent, specifically Anti-Jew phobia.
My dream is for a day we can all see the good in each other and not just the evils, for this tolerance needs to start at home, in the heartlands and thus the minds of Muslims, the current worrying trend of religious phobias need to be reversed. The Pope’s message should be read as a wake up call.
Salams from Brisbane and happy fasting!
September 23rd, 2006 at 6:33 am
Bravo to Farish Noor, one of the few local commentators I hold unabashedly in high esteem, for writing a reasoned and balanced article. Hopefully we’ll be seeing more of such pieces on Dr. Bakri’s blog.
September 23rd, 2006 at 7:40 am
The oldest tyranny that still reigns supreme is religion. Just look at the havoc it has wreaked over the centuries. How many of those who talk about god and religion get past that “emotion” stage to reason and understand how beseiged the mind can become.
Without doubt, Islam as potrayed in today’s news, is not the tolerant religion as being claimed. But neither is Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc. The Pope conveniently seems to forget the blood through which the religion was propagated and “enforced” through many centuries, as in the Latin American countries. This itself makes the claim hollow that it is a religion of love and peace. Some years ago, the Hindus in India ran amok and destroyed a mosque revered by Muslims with the almost blatant support from Hindu fanatical politicians. In Sri Lanka, the Buddhist monks are known to have such violent views against those of other religious denominations, a total disgrace to the robes they wear.
To claim religion as an entity with religious sanctity is nothing more than hypocritical. Rushing to get the blessings of god when getting married but forsaking it completely when seperating is part of this irony. If today’s muslims in Malaysia are as Islamic as they claim to be, then how would they convince me with the rampant corruption that they indulge in? Sounds hypocritical isn’t it? Not that other religions are divine in nature, it is all nothing more than hypocrisy.
When the many inconsistencies between what they pronounce/preach and what they practice, religion has rather become a menace and poison as each try to outdo the other. While all these are being staged far away from the period that the grand masters had “preached” the failure of religions as seen in the present context should be rightfully concluded as a failure by all these grand masters. After all, none of them have been able to drive any sense into the madness that prevails in our dubious confrontations. I am ashamed at their disability to help us at this hour of need. They lived during their time and we live in ours. You and I need to understand each other and work out things as man and human beings. I don’t think so any of these messengers have mentioned in their scriptures about a car or lorry that would come many, many years after their death. You see, they never saw the future as it would be. They lived in their time and we live in our time. If Bush decides to bomb Iraq, then it has to be Kofi Annan who has to try the diplomacy channel to halt it, just to quote an example. Only man present can deal with another man present. The world would have certainly be better of without these religious messengers. What a twist of fate?
September 23rd, 2006 at 10:33 am
Yes, God the merciful, and man the hateful, deceitful, spiteful …
Perpetration in the name of God does not exonerate the perpetrator.
September 23rd, 2006 at 5:02 pm
You fellas talk nonsence!
Here I am hiding in the hills of Pakistan calling for the destruction of all infidels, and you are talking rubbish in trying to analyse what ails our civilization.
The present is the final conflict of two different civilisations i.e. the west and the east. You cannot have two winners. It is a zero sum game. Period.
In the name of God, yes, in the name of God I call for the destruction of the decadent society of the west. Go kill all the homosexuals, the liberals, the eggheads, the pseudointellectuals, the rotten and the weak.
Seventy two virgins are waiting at the gates of Paradise. Believe me you don’t want to keep them waiting for too long.
September 23rd, 2006 at 6:45 pm
I was told they have run out of virgins and have resorted to dangling young boys and girls as baits. Good luck to you jihadists. I am happy here wth my mamasan. She is still great inspite of her age.
September 23rd, 2006 at 7:37 pm
Saywhat:
God the merciful: sounds a bit hollow I think. When the tsunami devasted the lives of hundreds of thousands, does that look like god is merciful, or is it his (I really don’t know if it a “his” or “her”) way of showing mercy?
September 24th, 2006 at 1:45 am
Well, Fair Malaysian, it’s his way of punishing the sinful but the sinful here are the innocent women, children and the infirms. Wonder why many have procalimed Him to be the Al Mighty, the Merciful and the Knows All.
September 24th, 2006 at 2:09 am
Al Jihad:
Yes, you are right. When god cannot build his own church, temple or mosque and man has to build these for him, I hardly find him as almighty.
September 24th, 2006 at 3:49 am
God is in our heart. For the truth we must turn our eyes inwards, for it is within us.
September 24th, 2006 at 4:16 am
Grass:
Are you talking about conscience? I don’t understand what you are trying to say. I would appreciate if you can elaborate. BTW, does your notion apply to someone who is a mental patient?
September 24th, 2006 at 5:45 am
Grass,
He is in our heart alright. That is why we are at lost trying to make sense of his commandments.
Man have intrepreted his commands to suit their evil needs. Therefore, the sufferings we endured today should not be directed at anyone, least of all God. It is man made and man should be faulted.
The Pope made a remark and the whole Islamic world jumped. When the Taliban blew the Buddha statue to pieces nobody jumped. But in this instant God was never on the side of the wrong doers. The Taliban got a taste of their own medicine and were routed in a matter of a month.
Grass, may be it is time you rethink.
September 24th, 2006 at 7:47 am
Actually the contrast was meant to imply that it’s all man’s own doing; but to say that God is neutral or anything less seems contrary to conventional wisdom. So there is nothing wrong or hollow in casting God in the virtuous light. A natural calamity is just that.
September 24th, 2006 at 8:34 am
If I have always wondered why and where the so-called masters have failed, the present religious leaders are no better. The recent furore over remarks by one and the almost violent reaction by another comes as no surprise. God, as the creation of man, is just a pawn in these games, where he will do “as man wishes”. A virtuous god should step-in to cast his vote in a manner that would mean and seem “human” but alas when had or has god done that?
September 24th, 2006 at 10:49 am
More like God will do as man claims, some claiming louder than the others.
September 24th, 2006 at 10:53 am
I asked the Pope to withdraw his statement about Muslims.
He wanted to but they won’t let him. He confided in me (amounting to a confession which he’s used to making) that he’d rather join me in Hell where he could expect to see not only the seventy virgins at the Gates of Paradise (i.e. after he’s done his time in Hell for masturbating throughout his llife) but where he could wait for the likes of Sharon Stones who gave him a glimpse of what was waiting for him down there.
September 24th, 2006 at 11:00 am
Al Jihad says, “I was told they have run out of virgins and have resorted to dangling young boys and girls as baits. ”
You heard wrong!
But I assure you that by the time you come round, there won’t have any left but the Pope waiting to do your bidding. Now, you don’t want the Pope to do anything for you. I know this Pope well.
September 24th, 2006 at 1:16 pm
There seems to be a mass migration of bloggers here spilling out profanity and ridiculing the Muslims and Christians. tsk tsk 10-4
September 24th, 2006 at 1:21 pm
Ill do anything you ask of me - even blow myself up. Just gimme my seventy two virgins (and counting).
September 24th, 2006 at 1:22 pm
Wait… how would I know if they are virgins?
September 24th, 2006 at 3:36 pm
Farish A Noor is indeed not your ‘normal’ Muslim writer, a welcomed breath of fresh air that is so lacking in Malaysia today.
I remember growing up in the Malaysian environment where every mention of Christ being the Son of God seems to make the authorities nervous and defensive. For example, a chapter about Christianity in the school textbooks must always be qualified with a statement that says Muslim do not believed this. If you go to the theatre and watch a movie about Jesus’ life, you again see this statement at the start of screening.
So, I agree with the writer that before you expect others to respect you, you must also be able to respect others. Just claiming to be tolerant is insufficient. Reacting with violence just reinforces the fear.
September 24th, 2006 at 4:36 pm
Hi Ogre:
I agree with you that profanity has no place in the discussion and debate on any issues here. I believe Dr. Bakri is in good stead to ensure that. I hardly see any profanity here anyway.
However, I do do not agree with your assesment on the “ridiculed” part. Instead of hiding behind this grim word and forever making it a “sensitive” issue, people like you and me can have a rationale discussion. I am sure you will be able to do that.
September 24th, 2006 at 7:14 pm
Fair Malaysian:
Sorry, perhaps I didn’t make myself clear.
To me, my god is my conscience. I do not believe there’s a superbeing called “god” that has absolute power, lives somewhere called “heaven” and controls the destiny of man and man’s need to worship him/her.
And mental patients? - if you are referring to those mad islamist terrorists, they have no conscience. How can they do the beheadings, blowing up vehicles and sniper shooting of innocent people even their own kind, in the name of their religion? And who gives them the ultimate right to judge who are the infidels?
Al Jihad, you said:
“Man have intrepreted his commands to suit their evil needs. Therefore, the sufferings we endured today should not be directed at anyone, least of all God. It is man made and man should be faulted”
It’s well said, can’t agree more! If at all there’s a god as they claim, their god must be mad!
To me if we live honest decent lives, we will automatically go to heaven(if at all there’s a heaven) when we die, wouldn’t we?
September 24th, 2006 at 7:58 pm
Excellent piece by my friend, Farish Noor.
Congrats, Dr. Bakri, for creating a new column,”Selection” on his website. By doing so, you have provided room for interesting comments and viewpoints to appear for your wide readership which includes a lot of young Malaysians who want to rid themselves of official propaganda in our news media. Thank you.
September 24th, 2006 at 9:31 pm
It is an excellent and objectively written piece.
I was wondering, what will be the response of the bloggers if this piece is not written by Mr Farish but by some non-muslims? I am sorry for falling into the dichotomy-like “us” vs “they” thinking, but sincerely I hope this kind of message or voice should be heard loudly everywhere, regardless of whom gave the message.
September 24th, 2006 at 11:51 pm
Fair Malaysians
I know you are a level headed person and also an atheist. It gives me lots of pain when people belittle the Pope - head of the Catholic Church as much as when they belittle the Muslims with the 72 virgins line of thoughts. So much have been explained that the isuue of 72 virgins does not come from the Quran and is just an edict from some Mullah.
I don’t know of any way to get through the thick heats of these butt heads that there are some sensitivities when discussing issue especially on religion. Respect must be given to the Pope even though he had made an unwise quotation bu to demean him is unacceptable by my books. Along the same lines ridiculing Muslims with the 72 virgins joke is is bad taste. Not all Muslims sunscribe to that line of thought and not all Muslims believe in blowing themselves up. Mjority of the Muslims believe that suicide is against God’s wishes. Everyone has their opinions but be careful not to generalize.
September 25th, 2006 at 4:54 am
ogre,
it was a certain fair malaysian who posted that comment, so be careful not to pluralise.
i enjoyed farish’s article but i can’t help but notice the apologist in him. yes, we are disturbed by the reaction of some groups of muslims to the pope’s remarks. but wasn’t such a reaction expected?
what was not at all expected was for the pope to make his remarks. at a time when muslims and islam all over the world are under siege, the pope’s provocative remarks are unwarranted, dangerous, and beyond comprehension. as a muslim scholar residing abroad, lecturing in foreign varsities (germany, i believe), farish is in a good position to dig deeper into the pope’s mind and tell us - or speculate, theorize, guess - what went on in the pope’s mind when he made those remarks. i had expected farish to be tougher on the vatican and to be less kind to the indifference shown by the non-muslim world.
yes, we ought to respect the pope as the head of the catholic christian. but we don’t have to be kind to his views that are unkind to us. yes, by all means, take to task those whom we think over-reacted to the pope’s statement.
but let’s not forget they are not the present problem. the pope’s words are.
September 25th, 2006 at 5:19 am
Grass: Yes, agreed - I get your point.
Ogre: I have nothing against individuals, including the Pope. If I meet him tomorrow, I will still give the due respect and honour befitting that personality, despite on what I may disagree with him personaly. Even to someone who professes to differ from my own views on religion and god, I have always accorded the due respect. It would be good to know that my wife of over 20 years is a Christian and to this day remains a Christian and believe me, we never had a single misunderstanding on religion during all these years. My wife has saluted me many times for my principles and understanding on religions and god.
However, when people use religion and god in a despicable manner, (I mean all religions) then that religion, the masters of that religion and god have to bear some responsibility for the actions of their followers. That is the price to be paid and those who become messengers and custodians of such religions ought to have understood and realised the heavy onus. What is the purpose of dwelling on the “sanctity” of religion and god when such cannot be observed or guaranteed. Yes, it is a heavy responsibility but don’t you think so it is necessary. Look at the madness created by a few from each religion holding ransom a large and silent majority to their whims and fancies.
Like all men, or most at least, the Pope is vulnerable to the “happenings” of the day. Am I to say that the Catholic church is not clustered with hypocrisy when they had to throw Copernicus in prison, just because what he said was against the bible but nevertheless the truth. Or the muslim friend of mine who prays fervently five times a day and talks to me on endless hours on the virtues of Islam but wants a hefty “under-table” money for all the contracts he deals with (do we call that corruption”?) or my neighbouring Hindu lady who never fails to break 10 coconuts every Friday to display her religiousity but treats her Indonesian maid so meanly that whenever my wife has the chance, gives her food through the back door. These are not just stories but facts. I feel so rotten inside that I am forced to jerk up the price (a nominal fee would never be a problem) by more than 100% that I feel so sorry for my would-be Client that I decided not to go through with it. Well, being an atheist never stopped me from being honest and live with some pride and consicience. God and religion does not stand on its own. It has to be personified through man and alas, I have no reason to change my views because I just cannot see it.
September 25th, 2006 at 5:46 am
Life is about making choices. Failure to make that choice could mean losing out on the deason’s offer of seventy two virgins.
Imagine seventy two virgins! Think of what you can do with not one but seventy two of them. You could form a couple of football teams.
September 25th, 2006 at 6:06 am
ALQaedah: In today’s world, who bothers whether a woman is a virgin or not. Do we men subject ourselves to the same standard? So, just get on with your life instead of pinning on virgins.
September 25th, 2006 at 9:15 am
lubokmelayu
sorry didn’t mean to pluralise. just the fingers getting ahead of me and also notice the many typos. just not my day i guess.
Fair Malaysian
I’ve always enjoyed your point of view, rather independent but always with a caring heart. You always stress your point but without demeaning or degrading the person unlike other commentators.
Sometimes the action of a few cause the whole flock to be branded. Just because a few wrongly educated muslims who blew themselves up, now Islam is branded a violent religion. How can that be? Not all suicide bombers kill under the name of Islam, sometimes they do it to avenge the atrocities afflicted to their fellow citizens. Palestinians have been doing this against the Isrealis, not the Jews and Palestinians comprise of Muslim and Christians Arabs.
The Iraqis are carrying out suicide bombing but more often than not they kill fellow Muslims - sunnis versus shias. The Catholics and Protestants in Ireland have been known to bomb each other, why are they not called Christian terrorist and why isn’t christianity called violent? because they are doing it for a different cause?
The Isrealis have been bombing the Lebanese and the US has dropped millions of pounds of bombs over Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Afghanistan and Iraq and the US are mostly Christins. What gives these people the right and why isn’t the christians called a violent followers of Christ?
The case of etnic cleansing in Serbia, and the old Yugoslavian state were done methodically by the Christians where millions of Muslims died. How come Christians are not labelled violent? These are not centuries old but very recent.
The Pope being the head of the Catholic Church is held to a higher degree of responsibility as he speaks for the Catholic Church. The ordinary muslim suicide bomber does not represent any particular group in Islam and thus is held accountable to himself. Hamas and Hezbollah and Mujaheedin are all fighting a war for independence and by coincidence are Muslims but they do not represent the Islamic faith. There are millions of muslims living in peace with others and how come they are being brushed with the same statement.
September 25th, 2006 at 7:44 pm
The comments made by the Pope on Islam was definitely morally questionable both in contents and intention, with much disregard to a religion alien to him, the worst that could possibly be done at this point of time to make hoary generalisation.
Having said that, it’s about time “religious leaders” of Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Judiasim, Buddhism etc. come out hard and stand up against wicked irresponsible extremists that use the name of their religion to create hatred, kill and evoke fear in enemies, instilling courage in supporters.
How often we hear their claims that they are not responsible for the actions
of their radical few? Collective guilt is not the way forward.
September 25th, 2006 at 11:18 pm
Ezekiel 25:17 “The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother’s keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you.”
September 26th, 2006 at 1:26 am
This merely illustrate that Pope is human and human being errs, problem is,people treat him like God’s representative.Having said this,why the hooha? afterall nobody dare to ask Osama to apolozise.
Take a look at the old testament, no different, there plenty of episodes of battles taken in religious context, the only different is most muslim extremists tend to perpetrate hideous acts in God’s name whereas others discourage it. Muslims have to battle perception problem but it’s not easy b’cos people cannot differentiate between moderates and extremists.
September 26th, 2006 at 6:30 am
What Me Worry says, “And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you.” This looks like another spin akin to to the “second coming of christ” but wonder when would that be - hope at least not after the world has been laid to waste. I am not trying to ridicule here but has the diversity in so many gods taught us to think? The many mysteries that surrounds me puzzles me but the truth I honestly don’t know what will happen to me when I die but I would rather be honest to say that I don’t know rather than relate and quote whimsical stories. How on earth in an era as we are now given that much of credence to an era or period when/where man was ignorant and can be excused for believing in such things but?
September 26th, 2006 at 6:35 pm
Fair Malaysian says,
” In today’s world, who bothers whether a woman is a virgin or not. ”
It infuriates us men to find that someone has been there before us. Don’t you like to be the first man on the moon?
September 26th, 2006 at 6:52 pm
What is heaven and what is hell nobody knows. After all who have been there and return to describe?
Hollywood tried and is still trying to depict Hell as explained in the Bible. How close can one come to describing it in its most infinite detail? It’s merely a conjecture.
However, the 72 virgins seem to have a profound impact on many. How naive can they be?
As Fair Malaysian had rightly said, he would rather be honest than relate and quote whimsical stories and give credence to an era when man was so ignorant.
Let me add this, religion and beliefs came into being when human beings, during the dark ages, could not explain the causes of natural calamaties and epidemics that had befallen them from time to time. They had rightly or wrongly associated these happenings to some hidden hands and so God was created.
Are we still transfixed in this bygone era? How unfortunate.
September 26th, 2006 at 7:26 pm
Yeah, god was created to instill fear in the people so that there is law and order.
Looks like the newest god today are the extremists themselves; they decide who should be punished, destroyed, maimed or be wiped out from the surface of this world.
September 26th, 2006 at 11:43 pm
Al Jihad
Prophet Adam was shown heaven. Prophet was taken to heaven during Isra Me;raj.
September 27th, 2006 at 1:06 am
I’ll not argue with you on that, Ogre. But let’s look beyond scriptures, as scriptures too were man-made and intrepreted in a manner that had aroused much suspicion.
Let’s base things on logic but simple logic is still incomprehensible to many. Take a middle path then. But how many dare tread this path?
Darwin’s Theory of Evolution was challenged by the Church and was only accepted by the scientific world many years after his death. During the Spanish Inquisiton death was the punishment for disbelievers and the heretics.
Fortunately, we don’t live in such an era otherwise some of us here will get our bums torched.
September 27th, 2006 at 5:52 am
There is heaven in weed. When I’m high on pot, I have a choice of how many virgins I want. I can pick and choose. Muslims are promised seventy two virgins so that they would obey God’s commandments. But how would they know if it is God’s or Satan’s??
September 27th, 2006 at 6:21 am
That is why religion is called faith and belief, Faith and belief in the existence of God and the hereafter. If everything is to be by logic then there is no faith. For example can you see electricity? No but you can see the results, you see light in the light bulb, you see motors turning but you cannot see electricity running in the wires. If someone asked you to touch the wire will you do it knowing that it will electrecute you? How do you know electricity is there, you can’t see it, smell it or hear it but you still are afraid to touch it.
Prophet Mohamad was shown heaven during Isra; Me’raj. That is part of scripture and the belief in Islam. This happened 1400 years ago and many did not believe that man can travel from Mekkah to Baitul Muqaddis in one night. Also Prophet Mohamed was riding on a big bird called Bouraq. Today 1400 years later man discovered that yes we can travel from Mekkah to Jerusalem in one night and we can fly in a big bird like creature called the airplane. The Quran have all the answer and solutions which mankind has still to discover. That is faith and belief.
September 27th, 2006 at 5:32 pm
It is not my intention to hurt anyone but just expressing my views only.
If you read the Hindu scriptures, such flying “machines” have been invented thousands of years before the advent of other religions. So, nothing was new as stated in other scriptures, it was just re-inventing the wheel at different places by different people. So, as much as such stories are termed as myths in Hinduism, we have to observe with caution on other myths, too. Comparing them with inventions would be far-fetched.
My mother keeps telling me that I should place my faith in god without questioning. She is a very pious lady and had brought us in good stead and my love and respect for her has never diminished but I also tell her that I certainly do not share her understanding on god and religion - having faith is one thing but it can also turn out to be blind-faith. All religions, I mean all religions claim to be sacrosant but I don’t see that in people I meet.
Man has unearthed himself may times over. If he has discovered the destructive nuclear bomb, he has also made strides in other beneficial areas. Man will continue his march in either direction, as he had always done, but this is man and he will continue to excavate the deep mysteries of his mind. Today’s religions have become political tools and while we all want to claim that it is personal, etc, the reality is that religions are wreaking havoc to divide and rule. It is not just between religions but within each religion, the divisions have become so pervasive that I have to wonder who really tells the “truth”.