I believe that ‘Humanist’ has been spot on in arriving at his findings.
If only the fanatical followers of Islam like’ true_muslim’ can learn to accept the existence of other religions and instill in themselves the principle values to co exist peacefully with the followers of those faiths,then and only then can we see them as being reformed.

While the general non-Malays still see the country as comprising various races and ethinicity, the young set of Malays (not all of course but more enough) sees as just Malaysia as comprising Muslims or kafirs.

You gotta be joking! Say you’re joking..

Islam Hadhari is new brand of Islam??? It has been given a new label by a politician to serve his earthly needs. Abdullah is no relgious cleric to even suggest that.

There’s a lot to be said about Satanic Verses.

“How do you reform a religion??”.

If Christianity can be “reformed” why can’t any religion be reformed? In fact the various sect of Islam can be considered “reformed” in some way compared to say, Wahhabi brand of Islam.

Conservative Islam, some may argue that Wahhabis belong to, do not accept its existence in a secular society. But other sects such as Sufi and increasingly, many Muslims are calling for secularisation of Islamic society (www.secularislam.org). If this is not reforming of conversative Islam, what is?

Islam is fragmented into various sects with some claiming to represent the true Islam, is the main problem. No doubt, Sufis can claim their religion to be a religion of peace, conveniently hijacked under the name of Islam by others especially conversative Islam for its PR exercise.

Even our PM is coming up with a new brand, Islam Hadhari - a new and better improvement? Is this not a reform of sort?

Surprisingly, some sects of Islam are accussing each other as infidels for not following their “true” Islamic teaching. Could it be that they are all correct ie. they are all infidels by their own definition?

How do you reform a religion??

How could Islam be a religion of peace? Everybody knows Prophet Muhammad spread Islam by the sword. During the Crusades, non-Christians were put to the sword simply for not being people of the faith and there were many instances of genocide in the name of religion throughout history.

If Islam is today a religion of peace, then how do you explain the deafening silence one hears each time militant Islam strikes??

If Islam is used as “both the means and the end” then if any of its followers violated it guideline or mis-interprete its holy scripture, or have different interpretation of the religion, can you blame non-Muslim for condemning Islam. What would you say if the “War on Terror” is now called “War on Islam”. You know, this is what some ex-Muslims such as Ali Sina are calling for! I will not provide the link here as a respect for Islam.

Read some of the ex-Muslims’ argument why conservative Islam has no place in 21st Century. Wafa Sultan describe the current conflict between Muslims and the West is a “Clash of Culture” - one from 14th Century against the 21st.

Unless Islam is reformed to exist peacefully in 21st century, there is no end in sight on further conflicts in the name of Islam. Ironically, it called the religion of peace.

Not if they are one and the same. Religion is both the means and the end.

Its naive to claim a complex issue such as the middle-east conflict can be adequately discussed here. I am trying to break down the complexity into basic single issue. Mine was , religion should be kept out of the conflict. After all, the use of religion for political end does more harn than good. My disappointment is the fact that HAMAS and Hezbollah being a “liberating force” uses religion for their political end.

clarkegable, your bringing in all the atrocities and historical fact is not addressing the fundamental issue I raised. Your ranting is more akeen to a shouting match than a debate. I assume you have not understood my point.

I am putting aside historical atrocities here because it has nothing to do with the issue I raised. Any normal human being would accept that atrocities and murders are wrong.

You forgot there’s a lot of business for Bush over in Iraq/