An Education System Worthy of Malaysia #14
Chapter 2: It’s More Than Just Education (Cont’d)
Socioeconomic Factors Affecting Education
The Stanford psychologist Claude Steele describes the phenomenon of “stereotype threat” felt by those long stigmatized. When Malay students fail in science and mathematics, it is not simply that they have not studied hard enough or have not been taught well rather they are fulfilling the stereotype expectations of their race. Extra tutoring and better teachers could remedy the first two, but the last premise is more difficult to eradicate.
We should assume that Malays are just as capable in science and mathematics; they must take these subjects. Make them mandatory even in religious schools. Because religious schools are popular and successful with Malays, we must make these schools like their Catholic counterpart in America. Religion should only be one subject, not the consuming curriculum. These schools must produce their share of the nation’s scientists, engineers, and executives.
During my school days under the British, my parents were not involved with my school although they did keep a close eye on my report card. The reason was simple; they physically could not do so as the school was far away. Even if they could, the language used was alien to them. This was typical of most Malay parents at the time; no surprise then the dropout rate for Malays was atrocious.
Today many schools in California have newsletters in Spanish as well as English in order to reach out to Hispanic parents. Additionally many schools have after-hours adult programs involving the parents.
One school, recognizing that many of the parents do not speak English, has evening classes to teach English, as well as other subjects specifically tailored to their needs such as how to become citizens. In this way parents would be made to feel involved with and connected to the school. These gestures go a long way to make parents (especially those from minority groups) feel welcome and be part of the school community.
Gender is also a formidable barrier to education especially in traditional societies. Many Malaysian parents actively discourage schooling for girls believing that such investments would be wasted. In Malay society specifically, this was a prevalent practice until a few years ago.
Today the achievements of Malay girls are much superior to that of boys, indicating that such cultural barriers can indeed be changed for the better.
Even mundane details like textbooks and uniforms affect school performance. Studies in Kenya show that when children are provided with free textbooks and uniforms (often substantial cost factors for rural families) these pupils tend to stay in school. Research shows that among Malaysians, family size is inversely related to educational attainment. That is, the bigger the family the lower the educational attainment of its members. Schools entail costs, thus poor families conserve their scant resources by limiting schooling only to their more promising progenies. In the past it was quite common for other siblings to sacrifice so one could finish his (usually a son) schooling. Such socioeconomic barriers can be effectively overcome by imaginative policies. It is interesting that for Malay children born after 1970, that correlation no longer holds. That year is significant in that the NEP was introduced giving Malays substantial aids in education. It was effective in breaking down that barrier for Malays.
For Muslims, yet a major impediment to excellence is their attitude towards education, in particular, secular education. This barrier arises from the traditional interpretations of and differentiation between worldly and religious knowledge. Present day Muslim scholars disparage the pursuit of the former lest it would contaminate their piety and religiosity. Much of the attempts at educational reforms in the Muslim world are geared towards the “Islamization” of the curriculum, that is, trying to put an Islamic spin to secular knowledge. This is a retrograde step as it merely reinforces this artificial separation and further demotes the value of secular education.
This fad is already entrenched among Muslim intellectuals in the social sciences. Unfortunately those in the natural sciences too are not spared. Inevitably this results in their producing adulterated “scientific findings” that will never see the pages of reputable journals. Worse, now we have Islamic “scientists” who have never seen, let alone used, a test tube. Consider the absurd comments of Muslim “scientists” attributing computer viruses to the works of jinn (devil)!
Science is science. Hydrogen mixes with oxygen under the right conditions to produce water, Islamic science or not. Science and religion is complementary, not adversarial. Science explores the world around and within us while religion answers our spiritual needs.
Advancements in science benefit all mankind; we should not belittle these discoveries. In trying to discern differences where none exists, these intellectuals and scientists are wasting their energy. They would be better off trying to elucidate the secrets of Allah. Such “Islamizing” activities simply mask their lack of intellectual ingenuity and curiosity.
They cannot discover or contribute anything original so they seek refuge in concocting such puerile intellectual pursuits as Islamizing established principles.
A more sinister aspect to these pseudo-intellectual activities is that their practitioners are hiding behind their Islamic cloak to advance their career. Religion has always been the refuge of scoundrels including academic ones. Nobody dares call them to the carpet for fear of being labeled anti-religious. These Islamic intellectuals remind me of third-rate Soviet scientists and scholars who, unable to advance on their own talent, hide behind their communist party credentials. In truth, those who truly uplift the image of Islam are the scientists who diligently pursue their curiosity. Scientists like Abdus Salam (1979 Nobel laureate in physics) and Ahmad Zeweil (Chemistry 1999), like thousands of others quietly toiling in their laboratories discovering the secrets of Allah, do more for Islam than third-rate scientists cloaking themselves in the veneer of the faith.
It is interesting that both Salam and Zewail found the fullest expression and appreciation of their vast talent in the West. More poignantly for Salam, his native Pakistan’s parliament passed a special resolution condemning him as an infidel. So much for the Islamic respect for knowledge!
A more fruitful approach, and the one that I am advocating, is to remove this artificial barrier. All knowledge – secular and religious – originates from God and thus is worthy of our quest.
Next: Eduation and Technology
April 13th, 2006 at 3:30 am
kill all mala pig in malaysia,
It is not right to write the way you have written, no matter what sort of frustration you have.
April 13th, 2006 at 4:34 am
Good response there Taishan….
I was thinking of responding… but then…. I got put off…. maybe I have read too much of comments from such cyber-identities….
….. people like kill all mala pig in malaysia really kills off the spirit of genuine discussion….
What can I say…..
April 13th, 2006 at 5:30 am
Dr Bakri Musa, please remove the message of “kill all mala pig in malaysia” from your message board.
“kill all mala pig in malaysia” you are a disgrace whatever your race. If you’ve got nothing constructive to say, please don’t post.
April 13th, 2006 at 5:33 am
our government has been too soft when treating chinese with the “mala pig” syndrome. These are the ones to cower behind tables rather than stand up and expose themselves for what they really are. They attribute their frustrations and their failures to Government policies. These are the ones we say, “If you dont like the way you’re treated, who is preventing you from migrating to places like China to find how you’d fare over there?”
I say we start a fund to ensure those with the “mala pig” syndrome leave our shores on a one way ticket to wherever they wish to go. Of course, prior to that and in return we would like to see them renounce their Malaysian citizenship and not use Malaysian passport for their journey.
It would be interesting to find out how many would surrender their passports and renounce their Malaysian citizenship in order to make use of this opportunity.
What we’re seeing is a migration of those racists that populate the limkitsiang.blog to this blog since that blog seemed to have suffered a downtime of sorts and is now following this blog in its format.
In spite of the discriminatory government policies, they choose to stay because they know Malaysia is still a good place to make a living.
So what’s with this “mala pig” syndrome overflowing to this blog??
April 13th, 2006 at 5:44 am
kill all mala pig in malaysia:
You must come from a seriously flawed and disorientated family to write like that. Only those who lack self-cnfidence and pride can write the way you have written. Say your piece but in a cultured manner. I am sorry that there are among us misfits like you. You are really disgusting.
April 13th, 2006 at 5:52 am
NO! I say the blog owner should not stoop that low. That would be a mistake. Let the post remain as an opportunity to reflect on the woes that beset our nation. Racists come from all backgrounds and from all races. We know where this one is coming from!
April 13th, 2006 at 7:24 am
Well, could be a deliberate attempt by, you know who, to derail our “open debate” or to demonise the good doctor himself. His motive could simply be naive or diabolical.
We need to exercise caution. Let’s not get carried away.
April 13th, 2006 at 8:08 am
Yes Fathol, it is too crude to be real
April 13th, 2006 at 8:31 am
Trouble makers that’s what they are. Just ignore them.
April 13th, 2006 at 8:39 am
Cowards are loud-mouthed not worth the attention. They have a false sense of power by being irresponsible.
April 13th, 2006 at 8:42 am
Kill all Mala pigs
I challenge you to come out in the open and say that to all Malaysians, Malays, Chinese, Indians and all other races. I believe that all these people will kill you first. Brave because Dr Bakri protects your identity.
April 13th, 2006 at 5:46 pm
For once let me be the devil’s advocate,
1st rule - let us be very clear that I’m not condonning the action or words of mala pig. These are the words of a very frustrated Individual, whose writing could be the mirror of the accumulated experiences he/she faces.
2nd rule - let us look at the substance rather than the form to continue this discussion. By substance I mean the source/cause of the outpouring of these verminos accusations. Ignore the form as expressed as its only the reflection of the larger ingredient, the cause. Unless one like to put form over substance as most of our politicians, past & present, like to show us, then this intellectual discussion will be pointless, smoke with the wind.
With these two rules let us begin to ponder why people like mala pig wrote as he/she had shown us.
What’s the cause? From the writing one can see that the writer must have substantial level of education. And yet for a person of such level of education he can wrote such a trash, without deeper reasoning before sending it out for the world to see.
Either the writing is intentional to frame hate & bigotry by someone of heinous motive, or its the reflection of the frustrations gathererd throughout his/her living lives.
Either cases lead us back to our education system! The system has failed us, failed the people that matter for the nation’s well mean, irrespective of gender, race or religion.
The substance tells us that something is very wrong with our nation & yet we are still blind to it. Or at least the people that matter is still choose to look the other side.
We can curse & challenge this people. But we can never resolve or remove them unless we look them, and that means the SOURCE, of the pent-up frustration, straight in the eye.
As it is our nation is going down the drain at gathering speed due to a very weak leadership & the govt is in auto-piloting without a firm directive.
How are we as a self proclaimed middle-class intellectual should take the bull by the horn & fight the source of all the evils rather than be an armchair commentators pouring out tons of theories just to amuse our sense of fairnessness.
April 13th, 2006 at 6:30 pm
It was mischevious, definitely intentional(without a doubt!) to ignite hatred and ill-feelings amongst Malaysians, perhaps planned but not new. We have seen and heard such similar offending remarks even in parliament several times before.
Makes us wonder how the hell such dispicable characters manage to get themselves elected as MPs ?
Yes c53k, without doubt our education system has failed us terribly and we are in our 49th year of independence yet the same ‘rulers’ have chosen to look elsewhere for short term glories.
April 13th, 2006 at 7:04 pm
Guys and Jong,
Whoever the “kill the mala pig in Malaysia” maybe, I think, he does represent the retarded state of mind of some Malaysians in our country. This dysfunction is also an education problem. Education is intended, among other things, to make us all better citizens and unite us.
This website is for us to exchange views and share ideas, not to give vent to anger and frustation. Thanks.
April 13th, 2006 at 7:17 pm
Even before this “mala pig” , if you would scroll back you’ll notice there had been attempts and/or some infiltration to cause disharmony and derail our exchanges. That’s when I would distance myself for awhile.
If the AAB and his BN govt doesn’t do something about the shitty situation that we are in, Malaysians will definitely go for change come next election without a doubt!
April 13th, 2006 at 8:26 pm
I agree we should start a fund which the likes of the “mala pig” could take advantage of. We could even make available a flight or two for them by a carrier of their choice (not MAS) to fly them to any destination of their choosing. Alternatively, for those who prefer a slow journey, we could provide the traditional Chinese tongkang to ferry them to wherever they wish to go.
Good riddance to Chinese rubbish!
April 13th, 2006 at 8:46 pm
The-song-not-the-singer,
What makes you so sure that “mala pig” is chinese? Think.
April 13th, 2006 at 8:46 pm
“With these two rules let us begin to ponder why people like mala pig wrote as he/she had shown us” says C53 whatever.
We certainly do not need the likes of this “mala pig” to pollute the blog with his bigotry and to offload his tirade of abuse to make a point.
Like I said earlier, we UMNOputras use the national education system as a tool to churn out robot like Malaysian citizens who cannot think for themselves. We then shape their thinking through the mainstream media which we control. The rest is easy.
If you do not like what I am saying then you’d have to deal with it. The blog owner understands the importance of the first amendment as he is blogging from the “land of the brave and the home of the free”.
Personally I prefer his post not to be deleted or censored. The likes of “mala pig” are not a figment of one’s imagination - as they exist in places like Jinjang and in no small numbers too.
You may disagree with my views and call me names but we certainly do not need posters to call anybody “mala pig” or Malay monkeys.
April 13th, 2006 at 9:56 pm
Dear Readers:
As you noted, there are some comments making reference to a posting by a “mala pig.” That posting was posted for a few hours on Thursday afternoon Malaysia time. I discovered it early Thursday morning California time and deleted it immediately.
M. Bakri Musa
April 14th, 2006 at 3:14 am
Watch out for those who shoot down others through foul means and then return to dress up their wounds.
April 14th, 2006 at 3:22 am
Well, Jong one can never be sure of it just as one doesn’t want to know. But those posters, it would appear, who are sympathetic certainly are.
April 14th, 2006 at 3:24 am
Perhaps with the exception of one - so far.
April 14th, 2006 at 4:21 am
quote:
I agree we should start a fund which the likes of the “mala pig” could take advantage of. We could even make available a flight or two for them by a carrier of their choice (not MAS) to fly them to any destination of their choosing. Alternatively, for those who prefer a slow journey, we could provide the traditional Chinese tongkang to ferry them to wherever they wish to go.
Good riddance to Chinese rubbish!
why chinese? see, everyone is a racist…
April 14th, 2006 at 9:52 am
Dr. Bakri:
You are right in “severing” your ties with whoever he or she is. We all have our problems and frustration but deriding in the manner he chose is beyond human decency and character. I am glad that you do not allow such people in this blog.
Regards.
April 14th, 2006 at 6:21 pm
Malays are lazy, racist, narrow-minded, in the real world.
But they blame Chinese, Indians, white man, for many things.
No wonder many person label malays as ungrateful animals.
It is good for malays to go back to jungle or Africa, in order to avoid so many problems.
Enough said. Enough said. Enough said.
April 14th, 2006 at 7:57 pm
Happy Man,
If your remarks give you some sense of relief from your deep seated hostility and frustrations, then so be it. I want you to be true to your label, that is, be a happy man. But before careful when you seek to push the envelope too far.
Read the Malaysian Constitution carefully and you will understand the background to race relations in our country, and also good back into recent history especially to May 13, 1969. Maybe, you will recognise the dangers we face when we have people with your mental attitude.
We are all agreed that paternalistic approaches to solving the so-called Malay problem has not worked. What we are trying to do is to find alternatives which will enable the Malays to eventually more self-reliant and resilient. Enough of this colonial stereotyping.
Over my dead body, if you think you can send us, the Malays, to Africa, or elsewhere or make me and my community disappear from the face of Malaysia. Think again.
Thanks.
April 14th, 2006 at 7:58 pm
Correction: change “before” to “be”.
April 14th, 2006 at 8:02 pm
Change to read “to eventually be more self-reliant and resilient”. Sorry about that. Thanks.
April 14th, 2006 at 11:17 pm
Happy Malaysian:
Are you really happy or being antagonistic? Ok, the Malays are lazy and racist. Why stop at that? Say that the Chinese are dirty, greedy and conniving, the Indians are not reliable and dishonest. So go on and with these labels and see where you end up. Empty cans like you are just that because you cannot discuss and argue issues rationally and sensibly. We have to recognise and accept the fact that these attributes do not belong to one race but that of mankind generally but stooping so low to deride one particular race smacks of your very racist and “empty” tendencies.
Dr. Bakri:
I hope the day will come when the Malays wake up from their sombre and be all what you have desired and dreamt of, as visioned in your article. A few guys in their disguise are sadly hampering and hindering the progress of the race, as you also pointed in your article.
April 15th, 2006 at 4:14 am
Happy Man,
Kah..kah…kah! You probably not aware that this country is called MALAYsia! The last 3 letters are decoration
April 15th, 2006 at 4:50 am
This is precisely the reason why I style myself as a keris wielding fanatic - merely to emphasise my point.
Look at what is happening along the Mexican-U.S. border. In 1824, the white Europeans took California, Texas i.e. much of the south west from the Mexicans and even renaming a part of it as New Mexico. There is no doubt that some among us would like to see Malaysia re-named New Malaysia under the banner of Malaysian Malaysia. The concept of Malaysian Malaysia promoted by the PAP and echoed by the DAP in Malaysia is just a ploy to get offical recognition. We know their real agenda. We understood it then and we understand it now - so DAP lay off!
The Malays have been here for some 3,000 years though the last wave of migration is not that distant. True, prior to that the Malay peninsula was inhabited by the Senois, Negritos etc The migration of the Chinese and Indians to this country happened only several centuries ago. In fact many of their grandparents were foreign born - and just as many have one foreign born parent rather than grandparent.
We do not like to end up like the American natives who are now living largely in special reservations meant for them. Our colonial masters the Brits, before they left, in fact already have such laws in place in preparation for such an eventuality.
If we had allowed the likes of Lim Kit Siang and Lee Kuan Yew to have their way in the early 1960s, they would have fought to ensure that Malaysia cut up and disntegrate into two halves - much like what had happened in India. To them they would like to see states like Penang, Perak, Selangor, Johor join Singapore in a union - and Malays move to the largely populated states in the north and east. Lee Kuan Yew when he brought Singapore into the federation of Malaysia harbored ambitions which went beyond the borders of Singapore. Tunku was farsighted enough to recognise the dangers that loomed then and finally and in good time had to agree for the temporary separation of the Island which was part of the Persekutuan Tanah Melayu (I am using the phrase loosely here) from the rest of Malaysia.
On racism, we stand for what they call “racism” - another label and another ploy to have us Malays believe that it is wrong for us so to do. What would they have called it if the table had been reversed?? Malaysianism?
That is why we the UMNOputras call it nationalism plain and simple - and “nationalism” would be devoid of meaning unless it is understood to mean “Malay nationalism”. It can only be understood in that context - and therefore what is wrong with being “racist” if that means we promote everything Malay in order to achieve nationhood. This used to be Malay country until the Brits saw it fit to encourage mass migration to cater for their economic needs - not Malay needs. Did the Brits ask us if we agree to it?
Today, individuals like O’Reilly of FOX and Lou Dobbs of CNN, are trying to get the American people to decide the issue of illegal immigration (mostly some 86% are Mexicans). The Malays were not consulted and nor were they given the opportunity to air their views by the Brits about immigration in such large numbers. What happened was an officially sanctioned invasion by the Chinese.
White Americans are today pointing to the Mexicans as not wanting to assimilate. Look around you wherever you go in the world there are little China towns - there is nothing “little” about these Chinatowns. They are actually large pockets of resistance, if you will, or areas where if you were to walk along their streets you could swear you were in China or Hong Kong. They refused to be assimilated despite calls for their assimilation - but, no, in Malaysia the word “assimilation” is anathema to the Malaysian Chinese. They build schools using Mandarin as the medium of instruction - and then ask that finance be extended to them in all fairness by the Government. They wanted to build the Merdeka University for Chinese students from these schools to go to.
Coming back to yesterday’s events along the Mexican border. The whites, mostly calling themselves the ‘minutemen’ in Texas but elsewhere calling themselves by various names like the KKK, are now burning the Mexican flag in territories which once belonged to the Mexicans!
If the same were to happen in Malaysian, the Chinese would be burning the flags which are symbols of Malay unity - the state flags and burning effigies of the Malay sultans, not just those of their political leaders in UMNO.
While others prefer to seek safe harbor under labels like “fair” and “equality” I prefer to look at the facts in the eye. Such concepts of “fairness” and “equality” have never worked in our favour. Why should we now work to preserve such labels - for labels are what they are and not much else.
Yes, I am proud to call myself a Malay ‘racist’.
April 15th, 2006 at 6:25 am
Hi KerisWieldingFanatic:
Fantastic isn’t it that you seem to have positioned to receive on a silver platter but don’t want to work for it or earn it - you see the problem. Never mind about yours (or others) “racist” stands but what bothers me is the shock I am still in when the former PM Tun Mahatir grandly stated that most of the tax money comes from the Chinese, the money you get as handouts, build mosques, from the gambling casino in Genting Highlands etc, etc. So don’t get carried away with such a false pride and don’t even compare with the white Americans. Everyone knows that they worked and struggled to build a nation, I mean sweated it out. Lest you forget history, the Chinese and Indians came here to build a country which was largely neglected. Ask yourself why? Their sweat and pains may have been forgotten by selfish creatures cloaking in disguise in the likes of you but this nation shares a rich history of the “other races” contributing to the nation-building, which you cannot be proud of. Minus the economics and nation-building, you are left with only politics - right before and after independence. Creeps like you should find out and address this much talked and discussed problem which does not seem to go away.
Like what you said, your umnoputra label is to just rob the rights and benefits of the poor and unassuming Malays who think that you are fighting for their cause. Whom are you trying to bluff? While the disparity is so wide between the rich and poor Malays, many goofs like you are targeting the Chinese and Indians to distract the ignorant Malays from the dilemma created by people like you. And these are the angry people you should be worried about, not us, as we have been very patient as can be, and even accept the fact that the Malays need help. The wide disparity between the rich and poor Malays, as pointed out by the PM during the Parliament address cannot be just whitewashed. The oft taunt on the Chinese and Indians to trick and distract the poor Malays is not going to work for long. My many Malay friends understand that we are not their enemies but the umnoputras, as you can read almost daily. Who do you tink coined the word umnoputras?
I have been born here and grew up with the Malaysian feeling and what makes you think this would diminish or vanish. I, and many like me, call this home and will continue to be a thorn in your flesh as the many races in this country stive to forge a unity and work towards a common Malaysia.
Anyway, if you are a true Muslim and pray five times a day, you would not be talking the way you did, isn’t it as even the great Prophet embraced everyone. Have you heard of the great Salahudin (Saladin) who even put to shame Christians through his passionate and human deeds. You seem to write-off that history. Well mite, we all have our share of heartaches and let us not ride down others because of that. Have a nice day.
April 15th, 2006 at 6:50 am
This is precisely why I like to keep saying form over substance.
Here you have keris wielding fanatic clamouring over twisted historical superficials (forms) over the hidden facts (substances) about the Mexican/USA delineations of nation foundings. The same applies to his interpretations of the role of the Chinese/Indians/Others for the founding of M’sia. And yet proud to call himself a Malay racist!
Such a mind is wasted by simple forms rather than the deep down substances, show this guy’s mind is as twisted & empty as Mala pig. The saddest part is that keris wielding fanatic can write better, indicating a higher level of ‘education’ but more tunnel understanding of historical facts. His education is wasted & another basket case of form over substance.
He forgets that what he have been written is just like the saying; spitting skywards & get own face smeared.
Look at the superficials brought up by keris wielding fanatic; the Mexico/USA delineations. What the USA did to the Mexico were exactly the reflections of the Spanish Mexican did to the true native of Mayans/Incas. In facts the Mayans/Incas got worst.
Similarly, if he is really into social/political history then the true natives of the P M’sia are the aborigines that are receiving the same treatments as the Spanish Mexican dishes out to the poor present Mayans/Incas.
Talk about fairness! It’s just the case of black pot & kettle.
Back to the present, historical facts indicated that without the agreements of the Chinese & the Indian the colonial Malaya will never get to be independent from the British.
Without the sacrificial efforts of these Chinese, Indian & the others, the Malaysia you see today will probably still be 50+ or more years down the timeline, like some of the neighbouring countries. 50 yrs ago Malaya was among the top 3 in Asia in term of socio-economical developments. Now we’re fast falling behind even some of our neighbours that used to look up to us. What went wrong?
In one single phrase - UMNOputras & its ketuanan malayu.
One cant keep getting the feeling that IF without this causality the present M’sia should have achieved 1st world nation perhaps 10 years ago, beating the little red dot down South, or may be there was not red dot at all as it was then part of the whole.
What keep the M’sia deviated from this path was/is the fears of the UMNOputras for their own selfish agenda – fear of having been swarmed by the others. A fear that had/has no concrete socio-economical standings. Its more psychological. For that all the M’sians are been pull & push into the self-dugged hole of only ketuanan malayu matters most. All things are secondary.
Then lately you have the new breed of UMNOputras that only concern with filling their own pockets before the hole get to deep to get out. By lining their own pockets the hole for the whole nation is getting deeper faster. But then who care as long as the short term ‘hidup gaya musti ada’ are prevailing.
To further prolong the grips of the UMNOputras over the greeds others, especially the Chinese, is been made the scapegoat for all things. Pointing to the same tactics that the Afrikanders used to suppress the Blacks. The irony is that over there it was the case of minority boss over the majority. While in M’sia it’s the other way.
From what keris wielding fanatic has been written it can be seen that these UMNOputras are still at the balls despite of the facts that the globalization will eventually making their factitious claims obsolete. In this eventuality majority of the Chinese, Indian & Others will not go down with these clowns, unfortunately some will have no mean to escape this socio-economic tsunami. The saddest part will be the disappearing of the majority of the gentle Malay, been fooled into the pages of the history, making the shout of ‘ t’dak again Malayu hilang di dunia’ that much hollow.
April 15th, 2006 at 3:06 pm
Without the agreement of the Chinese and Indians, colonial Malaya would not have become independent the way it did and when it did?? Tell me you’re joking!
The Brits withdrew from colonial Malaya because it was no longer tenable for Britain to hold on to her colonies – not after what the Japs had done to them. The Japs kicked their butts so hard that it reverberated throughout her Majesty’s colonies for years after the War, beginning with India. They gave independence to colonial Malaya not out of affection for the natives or the immigrants who they imported, without as much as a thought to the permanent damage they were doing to the demographics of the lands they occupied. At best, in 1957 they were occupied with the legacy they were leaving behind. Unfortunately, this fact translated into your ill conceived notion that they were not prepared to give independence unless the other races agreed to it. What a joke!
Would they have been able to hold on to colonial Malaya for very much longer? No – and they knew it.
Your perspective of Malaysian history has been tainted by your need as a race to justify its place in the national life of the country.
The other “error” that is always made is when you see the Malays as wanting economic development at any cost. This argument serves to amplify the failure of the Chinese to understand the Malays. The Chinese see others in their own image. This “we bring development to the country” argument is an affront to Malay sensitivities. The Malays would rather be “left behind” than submit to the vagaries of a nation invaded and divided by infidels – like it is today, given the choice. But they were not afforded that choice.
The Chinese, like the Europeans, when they occupied foreign lands brought with them prostitution and sexually transmitted diseases, gambling and opium houses wherever they went. They were able to develop a stranglehold over the economic life of the country only because the Malays had a laidback attitude towards economic development and had no defence to the “modernization” (read “westernization”) that came with it – the Malays had every reason to be because they were blessed by the land they worked for centuries and their subsistence way of life is a reflection of this and their moral values.
“Modernization” to the Malays came with a heavy price. There was a moral decay everywhere you find immigrants. It was not too long ago that Kuala Lumpur was an exclusively Chinese city with vice dens, gambling houses etc. Today the demographic landscape is slowly changing – as Malays wake up to the challenges they face.
However, Kuala Lumpur and other such urban areas still show the scars inflicted by the “invasion” as vice dens, drugs, gambling and other forms of organized crime continue to proliferate and flourish.
We UMNOputras have over the years earned our political legitimacy in leading the country out of the doldrums of moral decay and the consequent degeneration of the moral fabric of our society – only as an afterthought do we partake in the distribution of the spoils of office which come with the political power.
Yes, we are proud to be racists!
April 15th, 2006 at 6:01 pm
syabas fanatic….! you gave us a fresh insight into the way we should view our role in nationhood.
April 15th, 2006 at 7:03 pm
KerisWieldingFanatic/Melayu Tiang :
Incest : Highest among Malays; Divorce : Highest among Malays: Well, this sounds very moralistic. It is by law Muslims were barred from gambling, otherwise the entire country would have been gambled away, as Osu Sukam did. The girls who were caught having sex openly under staircases were Malays, what more with tudung on them. Look at your own back friend. Social ills happen in all societies.
April 15th, 2006 at 9:02 pm
how do you think the indians came to be stereotyped as ‘hindu mabok’. when the tamils were brought from kerala to work the rubber estates and man railway gates, they also brought with them cheap toddy - fermented from coconut.
today the indians are opportunists waiting to exploit any situation presented to them. they cannot be trusted.
April 15th, 2006 at 9:04 pm
Dear Friends,
This discourse is divisive and unhelpful. It does show that race relations remain sensitive and emotive. It takes Happy Man only a few sentences to trigger a debate on Ketuanan Melayu with a KerisWieldingFanatic UMNOputra waving the flag/keris of Malay nationalism to reassert Malay rights.
For me, Malay rights are a non-issue. The matter was resolved before we got Independence from the British in 1957, at a time when The Queen’s Government could no longer afford to keep Britainnia afloat, a point made by KerisWieldingFanatic, which is a case of imperial outreach.
I am not an UMNO man, just an ordinary citizen. But I acknowledge that UMNO led the Malays successfully in the past. I would not have been educated at tertiary level without a scholarship from an UMNO-led Government. Without that policy, I would not have gone to the University of Malaya in 1960 and, from there after brief careers in the Foreign Service, Bank Negara, Bank Pertanian and Kumpulan Fima, I would also not have been in private industry as prejudice against Malays in business was deeply entrenched.
Tun Razak and his succesors in UMNO broke new ground when they acquired London Tin, Sime Darby, Harrisons, and Guthries from the British. Their strategic decision created opportunities for Malays to be in the private sector. They also demolished the barrier of prejudice. There was active policy for Malays to go into business. After that it was hard work and sleepless nights all the way for men of my generation. The system then was one of Toynbeein challenge-response paradigm. The NEP was in its infancy, but it showed a lot of promise.
But in recent years, UMNO party is run by self-serving individuals for quick money deals and contracts, negatively referred to by political analysts as handouts. Behind Malay nationalism was that styfling “mana aku punya” mindset. The things began to change when Malay businessmen and professionals succeeded school teachers and penghulus in UMNO. So, UMNO became a party of, by and for a Malay elitist group, no longer the Malays.
Money politics in UMNO is now a way of life. Because of that people like Osu Sukam of UMNO Sabah could do what they liked with resources which rightly belonged to the people. They could gamble away with impunity. But if they had challenged or threatened top party leadership, they like Isa Samad would be severely dealt with, and humiliated.
UMNO today is the new aristocracy throwing “crumbs” to the Malays in the kampongs usually before national elections, while increasingly alienating the Malay middle class in the urban areas. UMNO can continue to do this, until one day the Malays in the kampongs will be outnumbered by their better educated counterparts in our cities and other urban centers.
What happens next? That is for UMNO to decide. It is the right of their members to decide on the people they want as their leaders. So far, their members are happy with the status quo. So good luck to them.
Maybe our KerisWieldingFanatic and Melayu Tiang (aka Kamboo) can answer us as to why things have changed in UMNO. Will Badawi change that culture or is he a prisoner of the system?
As far as I am concerned, certain provisions in our Constitution which safeguard Islam and protect the special position of the Malays are non-negotiable. This has been my stand all along. The challenge for us is how to make the Malays more resilient and competitive but less reliant on the nation state so that public funds to help them can be freed and re-directed towards improving the lot of all deserving Malaysians. It is in the execution of policy where the NEP and its successor programmes have faltered. Good policies were not matched by outcomes.
It would be useful for Malaysia if we can move away from this Malay versus the Non-Malay frame of mind. We face internal and external challenges today which require us to stay united and very focussed.
Thanks.
P.S.
Fair Malaysian, incest and divorce are not uniquely Malay,as you rightly noted when you said “Social ills happen in all societies”. What is your point here? Anything to do with the Malay-led rule of our country? I am unable to see the connection. Please help.
April 15th, 2006 at 10:00 pm
KerisWieldingFanatic: Shove it. You want to talk about the Japanese in Malaysia? You know who defended Malaya during that war? The MPAJA, the Malayan People’s Anti Japanese Army. I’ll let you go research the composition of that army.
I’m a Malaysian born Chinese and I am Malaysian before I am Chinese. My great-great grandfather may have been from China, but I was born in this great nation of Malaysia and I am as fully invested in it as you are. I love Malaysia for it is my home and need be I shall defend it with my life.
So don’t you dare tell me you are greater than me or you deserve more than me in my own country.
April 15th, 2006 at 10:20 pm
Bro Din:
None of the races could or should be cited as being privy to the social ills in our society. For one of such that I quote, someone may slap me with another and I would certainly be defenseless as that will remain the plain truth. As there are Osu Sukams, Dr. Reddy was reputed to have gambled away his fortune. I don’t know how far this is true but he is an Indian. Many Chinese gamble away their lives and become victims to Ah Longs. Visit the 4-digits outlets, you can see many Malays/Muslims, including policemen, with numbers on their hands. What runs right through the epicentre of all these - the basic human greed.
Why just cite one race as blameworthy - those blaming the Chinese for introducing prostitution in this country would only have to look at the local Malay/Malacca history on the chapters of Tun Ali. So, my two friends need not go on a treacherous campaign as what they spit would only fall on to their faces. There is nothing to be proud of ketuanan Melayu. If at all, it is all the personification of the ills facing the Malays in general today. The Chinese and Indians can and shall never be a threat to the Malays. As the Pangkor Treaty of 1874 looms in my mind, it was a case of Malays who sold off the Malays. Am I seeing history being repeated here?
April 15th, 2006 at 11:23 pm
Melayu Tiang:
You see your ignorance, you don’t even know the difference between Keralites and Tamils. Tamils orginially came from then Madras and now tamilnadu, and not Kerala.
There is some truth that Indians have been labelled as “maboks” and I, too, feel ashamed at their display of such attitudes. However, I do wonder whether that is a less evil than a Malay/Muslim who drinks liquor (unless you are totally ignorant) and a Malay friend of mine who remarked that drinking liquor on Non-Muslims money is allowed - he would only not drink from his own money. Just don’t become a laughing stock unless you don’t understand the word hypocrisy, as that seems the word being labelled against Malays, although I don’t agree with such a label. I would rather not digress further as I do not wish to hurt my own Malay friends who have a lot more sense than the limited knowedge (or ignorance) that you seem to so glaringly display.
April 15th, 2006 at 11:38 pm
You people always talk about your contribution in the form of taxes paid. Dont you realise that British or American expats working in Malaysia are also paying taxes? So what the difference between ypu people and these expats? Patrioticism is more than just paying tax!
April 15th, 2006 at 11:41 pm
BTW, MPAJA fought the Japanese on behalf of the Communist China!
April 16th, 2006 at 12:23 am
MPACA:
So, you believe that you have not learnt from the past colonisation of the whites? Ask the former PM Dr. Mahatir. Perhaps, he may explain to you better. In fact, he already did. And you perhaps still believe that they don’t repatriate their income back to their homes, unlike the locals. Just don’t go around fooling yourself. There is no point we quarrelling among ourselves, unless you are an umnoputra, chineseputra or indiaputra. They seem to have understood each other better to fool us than we do. Think again mite and think hard. Cheers
April 16th, 2006 at 12:50 am
“There is no point we quarrelling among ourselves, unless you are an umnoputra, chineseputra or indiaputra. They seem to have understood each other better to fool us than we do.”
Fair Malaysia, yes !
These umnoputra, chineseputra or indiaputra not only undrstand each other better, they are cooperating very well and busy putting money into their pockets.
Use Pak Din’s words , they stays united and very focussed in making their money.Even they quarrel among themselves they do it for money.
What are we quarrelling here for ?!
April 16th, 2006 at 12:56 am
Correction, change
“they stays united and very focussed in making their money” to ” they stay united and very focussed.”
April 16th, 2006 at 12:58 am
He he he
Perhaps Fair Malaysian can organize a trip to Southern India and invite all who are interested… to see the differences between Tamil and Malayalam speakers… and of course one benefit form such trip is to increase our appreciation of Malaysia itself… you know…. There is so much poverty in India… that people will be glad they are Malaysians…. Living in the so-called Bolehland… full of corruption and crooked politician…and a cancelled plan to build a Crooked Bridge….. instead of living in India… which is a proud country with nuclear weapons, large armed forces… and…. Much more crooked and corrupt politicians….
Perhaps Viceice could organize a trip to southern China… and Beijing….and the big cities….so that we can appreciate living in Malaysia instead of in China where the rich gets shamefully rich under the nose of Mao Zedong’s heirs … and the poor in China is so poor that their status is lower than dirt….. after all those parts of China are overcrowded with people….and yes… the politicians in China are nothing but hypocrites…. because many of them have forsaken these poor peoples!
I have to say that Malays tend to have distorted views on Malaysian Indians…. their views are mostly derived from ridiculous stereo-types… mostly from same-race friends…..Same thing applies to Chinese (and other non-Malay) views on Malays… as indicated in this blog topic comment section! And Malays also have distorted views on Malaysian Chinese too!
… perhaps this is the fault of the current education system which provide little time or space to fully understand our own heritage in an unbiased manner…. I got the opportunity to look at my nephew’s school text books (secondary school) early this year…during Christmas….. and I was surprised at the lack of depth in discussion of racial heritages of Malaysians other than Malays… in the textbooks… and what was there to describe Indians and Chinese are at best… superficial……
Or perhaps we should blame students for not going beyond the school curriculum… I don’t know…..
I think Melayu Tiang and other folks have to be careful when making remarks about race… especially when making remarks on races other than their own… or else… will end up looking like fools…
But to think more about it…..
I think this shows that the race factor has to be erased from the mind-sets of people before meaningful debate can take place……
But how exactly does one erase the racial feelings… or racial consciousness…. when this feeling is so embedded in our-selves…… ?
Perhaps we have to think that the classification of humans based on race is just another type of human-made boundaries… just like nation states…. which are all boundaries created by humans……
April 16th, 2006 at 1:24 am
Let us wait for KerisWieldingFanatic and Melayu Tiang to respond to all our comments. I see Amit has something to say. Jong and Fathol Zaman in Ipoh, let us also hear from you. Thanks.
April 16th, 2006 at 1:44 am
Ogre,
Back in the US? Hope you had a good trip to Malaysia and Indonesia. It was a pleasure for me to have a tea tarik session with you. I am sure you are now updated on the situation in Badawiland. Impressed?
You should have met Amit. The man has the inside track to latest thinking in officialdom. Cheers.
April 16th, 2006 at 8:00 am
Bro Din Merican
Yes i’m back in US. The pleasure was all mine albeit a short get together. Things have not changed much in Bolehland. In fact some things are getting worse. Cabs cost more costly. More street walkers along Jalan Sultan Ismail and more pimps on Jalan Bukit Bintang right under the noses of the police. This is progress i guess.
Immigration and NRD have improved. Got my passport within 1 day but IC still takes a month. But it cost me a fortune to get a taxi to and from Putrajaya. You are at their mercy if you don’t have your own transportation.
April 16th, 2006 at 8:29 am
MPACA: Does that somehow lessen the value of the blood shed for Malaya? What about the fact that the army split after the war and many of it’s former officers ended up fighting AGAINST the communists during the Emergency?
Amit:]”But how exactly does one erase the racial feelings… or racial consciousness…. when this feeling is so embedded in our-selves……”
Going OT here, (sorry Bakri) I think one way to solve this is to have relatives of different races. Over history, entire nations have forged bonds over marrage and personally i think the same is true of race and culture. For example if one is hindu and ones spouse is christian, then having to celebrate two sets of celebrations with both sides of the family would help bridge the cultural devide. Then again the challenges of that itself is another hot potato.
April 16th, 2006 at 5:13 pm
Viceice:
“You know who defended Malaya during that war? The MPAJA, the Malayan People’s Anti Japanese Army. I’ll let you go research the composition of that army.”
“So don’t you dare tell me you are greater than me or you deserve more than me in my own country”
This is not your country! Your public declaration of ‘patriotism’ does nothing to mislead those of us who know and understand where you are coming from and where you are going.
Yes. I want to know – who defended Malaya during the War?? This too is a laugh! Let me insult your intelligence and your skewed knowledge of history.
The MPAJA is not about fighting independence from the Japs or about fighting the Brits for independence, but fighting the Japs for what they did to your ilk in China, Hong Kong. Go read the “Rape of Nanking” to feel the contempt the Japs had for the Chinese as a race. The Chinese have been archenemies of the Japanese and have been fighting them for as long as we could remember – with the Japs looking down on the Chinks as a ‘worthless’ and ‘inferior’ race who deserve to be treated as such with contempt. There is no other race on the face of this earth, who having failed to sell off their grandmothers to slave masters would sell their daughters into prostitution without so much as batting an eye lid.
When the nationalist Chinese lost mainland China to the communists, the MPAJA transformed into a fifth column in colonial Malaya to fight first the Brits and then the Malays. They subsequently infiltrated labour unions and formed political parties like the defunct Labour Party.
The Tunku exposed them for what they really were i.e. traitors to the cause Malays stood and died for. In Baling, it became obvious who the MPAJA leader, Chin Peng was fighting for, as much as who he was fighting against and who he was taking his instructions from. Guess where the leaders of MPAJA went into final exile when they failed to get the support of the Malays – and it wasn’t Thailand.
What about the composition of the MPAJA?? Let me make an ‘educated’ guess. The rank and file of MPAJA, soldiers wearing Mao style caps with the three red stars whose loyalty was to a foreign power to the north, were Malays??
Gimmee a break!
April 16th, 2006 at 6:08 pm
KerisWieldingFanatic:
Am I missing something here? I thought the number two to Chin Peng was Rashid Mydin, who appears to be a Malay. Or I could be wrong that he was not a Malay Malay!!!.
Don’t go on shooting yourself in the foot. Do your homework properly mite. Am I angry with you? The answer is “NO”. Do I feel sorry for you? “YES” I feel sorry for your obvious ignorance. Just for you to ponder and have a nice sleep - talk to UMNO and PAS and see whether you can get them to agree to stop calling each other “kafir”.
Your dream of this “ketuanan melayu” will remain just as that. When the Malays abandoned UMNO for PAS, it was this loyal Chinese, Indians and others who saved the skin of BN. Or you have a short memory. Much as you may be angry with the developments, if you want to have a “Malasysian” life, you have to let go your parochial attitude and enjoy what we have been blessed with. Otherwise, you will go on fighting a losing battle as the guy up north in Kelantan (Ibrahim) found out. Let us leave politics to politicians who are good for nothing and they continue to laugh at us - on their ability to make you and me angry. It will lead us to nowhere. Unless, of course, you are also one of them!!!
April 16th, 2006 at 6:10 pm
Unless, of course, IF you are also one of them!!!
April 16th, 2006 at 7:04 pm
First my apology to the web owner for this lenghty reply.
We’ve a real basket case of form over substance, reading without understanding, hearing without listening. Take whatever to justify the ends without the deep understandings of the in-between.
Just try to correct some of the stereo-type responses coming out of these so called proud racists.
Quote”… Without the agreement of the Chinese and Indians, colonial Malaya would not have become independent the way it did and when it did?? Tell me you’re joking!…” So wrote KerisWieldingFanatic.
If you’re so much into history, please spend sometime going over the nation founding documents of Malaya carefully. If they’re not available in M’sia do goto British Museum library. You‘ll be able to clean your misunderstandings once for all.
Yes, the British Empire was at the sunset end. But for your naïve-ness do you really think the British would just give away the Malaya to the natives only? If the Malay leaders then could really formed a nation why should the British got the Chinese & the Indian to involved. Please spare me the conspiracy theories you’re going to dig out.
Many official documents that have been de-classified by the recent British government clearly point to one of the important factor to get the Chinese & Indian to agree with the Malay, in order for the Malaya to get independence.
Quote “…The other “error” that is always made is when you see the Malays as wanting economic development at any cost. This argument serves to amplify the failure of the Chinese to understand the Malays. The Chinese see others in their own image. This “we bring development to the country” argument is an affront to Malay sensitivities. The Malays would rather be “left behind” than submit to the vagaries of a nation invaded and divided by infidels – like it is today, given the choice. But they were not afforded that choice.”
Spare me the rhetoric. This hollow argument has been used so many time that it shows how un-capable the writer can put forwards a sensible facts. Just look at the present cases of UMNOputras grasping monetary projects, & wasting holistic intra-race opportunities given by the UMNO govt, to the detriment of their own race. That the Malay just wants to be “left behind”? How hollow.
All races in the world want to progress irrespective of the circumstances, comes what may. Unless these UMNOputras have some other ‘ostrich-ness’ motives to prevent the self-improvement of their own kind.
Quote “.. “Modernization” to the Malays came with a heavy price. There was a moral decay everywhere you find immigrants. It was not too long ago that Kuala Lumpur was an exclusively Chinese city with vice dens, gambling houses etc. Today the demographic landscape is slowly changing – as Malays wake up to the challenges they face….”
Again these UMNOputras twisted the facts that before the ‘“Modernization” to the Malays’ “ those social ills never exist in KL among their own kind. How pathetic can one be. This is again the true basket case of form-over –substance argument. Go and reflect your shallow mind, please.
For your learned infos there are tons of indications & evidents from the declassified British documents that MPAJA was fighting along the British with the Japenese during the occupations of the Malaya. Later the MPAJA turned to fight the British for the independence of the Malaya. Whether this fight was to be a communistic expansions or self preservation of Malaya historians in the coming years will have to analyse those documents for details.
As a reader of history, I can concur the fact that early UMNO working hand in hand with the other opportunists had brought substantial development to the Malay in general. But the later UMNOputras have only brought divisions, hates & stagnation to the country at large. And at what price! That all the efforts to uplift the country over the years ends up with form-without-substance type of superficials. And there are increasing evidents that it’ll get worst in the coming year, no thanks to a weak & auto-piloting leadership.
Amit, if a visitor from poor rural India or China will to go to our E M’sia outskirts or our orang asli villages in P M’sia your own arguments will fall flat straight away. He/she‘ll form the same arguments as you’ve the other way round. Every human looks for uplifts in living conditions. It happens every where, even in most of the developed countries. Be honest, you’ll not mind living in middle & upper suburbs of any India or China cities & blank yourself over all the inequalities that happened around these countries. So bolehland is not so much better or wonderful.
April 16th, 2006 at 7:45 pm
Our KerisWieldingFanatic has yet comment on UMNO of 2006 and beyond.
April 16th, 2006 at 11:20 pm
Rashid Mydin is one twisted and confused anti-British half-Malay who was tricked by the MPAJA. Unfortunately there is now a lot of twisted Malays who prefer to call themselves the liberals just to pacify and hoping to be accepted by the other parties. I know some mentally retarded Malays who ate porks or consumed alchohol simply to please their non-malay friends and boses. These mentally twisted Malays are deserved to be thrown into Sungei Klang!
We can find a lot of these Malays in this blog.
April 17th, 2006 at 12:27 am
quote:
I know some mentally retarded Malays who ate porks or consumed alchohol simply to please their non-malay friends and boses.
sorry, but i think thats an insult to your malay friends considering the fact that i know quite a number of them who enjoys drinking. If i have not mistaken, Tunku was a heavy drinker also…
to KerisWieldingFanatic:
You know what? The other race is as much malaysian as the bumis are…thats all, I’ll ignore this racist from now on.
April 17th, 2006 at 3:46 am
“Amit, if a visitor from poor rural India or China will to go to our E M’sia outskirts or our orang asli villages in P M’sia your own arguments will fall flat straight away. He/she‘ll form the same arguments as you’ve the other way round. Every human looks for uplifts in living conditions. It happens every where, even in most of the developed countries. Be honest, you’ll not mind living in middle & upper suburbs of any India or China cities & blank yourself over all the inequalities that happened around these countries. So bolehland is not so much better or wonderful….”
Ok… I admit I haven’t been to China…. but that’s what my Chinese friends are saying….
But I have been to India… and I have seen that there is a huge difference…… my own eyes…. If you don’t want to accept… that is your problem… I rest my case…. I wil tell a bit of story here:
Do you know that in India… in the slums in the big cities…. how many mothers “throw” away their babies… or drop them at welfare centers run by missionaries? Do you have that in Malaysia?
Do you know that in India… tourists are virtually crowded (more appropriately pestered) by beggars? Tell me… do tourists experience those things in the poorest parts of Malaysia?
I was advised not to give beggars money… or else.. I wil run out of money… Tell me… do tourists and visitors experience that in Malaysia?
April 17th, 2006 at 3:47 am
Sorry to double post.. my previous post is a reply to c53k.
April 17th, 2006 at 5:56 am
Amit:
I have not been to India but from what my uncle and friends related to me, your story on the beggars and the female newborns being “discarded” is true. This is something sad, particularly on the female newborns and I am hearing that now males outnumber females and in Rajasthan, a man with a daughter is a king.
MPACA:
Never mind about Rashid Mydin being a twisted Malay, as you say but I if what I had read about Islam and the great Prophet, then 90% of Muslims are twisted. You know why? Wheren in Islam does it say about racial discrimination? Where does it preach ketuanan melayu? Well, I can go on piling up the list but what use would it be with the likes of labeling your own brethren akin to “kafir” when you are one yourself. Doesn’t that warrant some soul-searching, that is, if you really have the spirit.
April 17th, 2006 at 6:44 am
I’ve been to India, China and Indonesia. You people are 10 times more fortunate here in Malaysia. You should be thankful 10 times daily. I’m not talking about discrimination here. I’m talking about those ungrateful lots like some of you. Yes, those Malays who eat pork and consume alchohol are a disgrace. Even the NT forbids those sinful acts.
April 17th, 2006 at 10:33 am
MPACA:
We came from China and India but you dropped from the sky. What gratitude are you talking about? You mean the way UMNO dishes out to the Malays and keeps drumming into them how grateful they should be for that but it so happens that they just turn their backs on UMNO and vote for PAS instead - Ah, this is a lesson in gratitude I have to learn from people like you - fantastic mite, who else can teach me the lessons in gratitude than “angels” like you. Do you deserve a “syabas”?
April 17th, 2006 at 2:54 pm
“When the Malays abandoned UMNO for PAS, it was this loyal Chinese, Indians and others who saved the skin of BN. Or you have a short memory” so laments Fair Malaysian, the resident whiner of this blog.
The Chinese and Indians should have voted for the opposition - which was the plan. It didn’t occur to us that the Chinese and Indians lacked the balls, and who instead cast their votes in support of BN. Had the Chinese and Indians showed some courage and voted the way we expected them to do, they would have given us a reason to declare a state of Emergency suspending all civil liberties and we could then form an Operations Council to replace the Cabinet – the way we did post May 13th 1969.
We would then be able to kick all the toddy addicts and ‘hindu mabok’ opportunists back to Kerala and the slant-eyed pork eating and ass wiping Chinks to Lanchow.
April 17th, 2006 at 5:29 pm
KerisWieldingFanatic:
I am elated that, at long last, you admit the power of the Chinese and Indians - that we can make the difference, that we hold the crystal ball. You can revel at your ketuanan Melayu or even sit in a corner and curse us, but you will always be a bitten and bitter chimpanzee, displaying only your antics but devoid of substance. UMNO has been smart to court us but PAS and people like you would always end up as the sore losers, as PAS, and eventually you, would learn the hard way. If even after almost 50 years, and after all the generous handouts you are still a bitter man, lamenting at our success, then go and do a bit of homework to find out why you need to talk less and work more.
Oh, I forgot: was it the likes of you that abndoned PAS this time around. I am surprised that you, too, have lost your balls. Welcome aboard. You see, at the end of the day, you still want to imitate us. Cheers
April 17th, 2006 at 7:15 pm
Amit let’s go slightly deeper into the issue of poor human living conditions in India. Just to put things into proper perspectives so that those misguided ‘infos’ as been mentioned by you can be put to rest in a proper framework.
Yes there are a lot of despicable living conditions in India. Do you know why. Given a slight chance Indians will not like to live like that, just like all others.
First - India is a large country, both size & population. It’s not easy to govern such a vast country, given the past histories that no govt policies have been actively persuade to reduce the gaps & differences between the classes due to religion & selfish agendas of the upper ruling classes.
Second - India had/has been exploited by the ruling elites, both the upper class & the British colonial power. Up till 10yrs ago, a lot of the gaps in socio-economic developments were/are still been maintained by the ruling classes so as to enjoy their standards to the detriment of the lower classes.
Only in the recent 5 yrs we start to see the new trend of developments in socio-economic changes due to the more open economy. The Indians are living in much better conditions now than their parents’ generations. In another 10 years those despicable social conditions mentioned could properly be reduced very further if the present Indian govt keeps up the effort for an open economic development.
The same socio-economical changes have been happened in China, though much earlier than in India. Thus you see the tremendous socio-economical & political developments now happened in both of these two Asian giants.
Let paraphrases these conditions back to M’sia.
Yes M’sia had/has been very lucky. We’ve no natural calamities & yet bless with plenitude of natural resources.
Most of all we’ve the people to extract these minerals & cultivate the cash crops to the best of the given conditions. The colonial masters & the early poor immigrants exploited these facts to the fullness. In turn socio-economic changes brought better living conditions to the people at large. Thus the colonial masters & the immigrants had brought benefit too to this land, though as a side-effects in the early day.
What about the Malay & the natives then. Couldn’t they brought any developments to the land? They had & their time had past. In terms of new ideas & developments theirs were at the sunset end, just like many great old civilizations. To move on there must be new & alien concepts to remove the ‘deadwood’ believes that so entrench & binding within their existences. Without the new inputs the old way would just slowly suffocate out their existence.
Now back to present day M’sia. This blessed land’s socio-economical & political forms have been progressed in the early 50-60, stagnated 60-90, & would be declined from now on IF given a chance.
Many would like to dispute & point to whatever reports that claimed glories for all the developments stated for M’sia now. There is only one word for this spurious cry; form over substance. Please think deeper to reflect this.
So yes M’sia is better now – socio-economical, compare with India/China. For how long?
If we’re not careful whatever Amit say about the human living conditions in India now can happen to M’sia in the foreseeable future. We’re almost having the same socio-economical & political factors governing the early part of India.
Just think about how Zimbabwe goes down the drain under Mugabe within 20 yrs. Close to home how Philippines goes down the drain under Marcos govt.
Sadder still, we’re not catching up with the top. Instead we keep comparing ourselves with the bottom & sliding down the rank as we ‘proudly’ proclaimed these & that achievements. How pathetic can one be.
April 18th, 2006 at 1:28 am
c53k,
Wow… you say my info is misguided… what about yours then? I see a lot of factual errors in your statements, especially about India…. And then…… what is the point of your condescneding remarks about Malays and natives? Why do you think Malaysia is sliding? And are your remarks justified?
_________________________________________________________
Allright… I do agree that countries may slide or regress backwards…… but I tell you there is no straight forward solution….. and the future is not clear….. sometimes the fears of backsliding are merely rhetorics used by prophets of doom……
He he…. your Zimbabwe… example…. what a co-incidence!!! Tell you what… I was riding a bus here in Oz… and guess what what… the bus driver had a short chat with me… anyway… you are not supposed to chat with bus drivers… but the weekend was an exception…. Easter holidays!… anyway… the bus driver talked agout Mugabe and how he screwed up Zimbabwe… but in the end he said that things were not better under the then PM of Rhodesia….. Ian Smith….yes…. Rhodesia was one of the richest country in Africa besides the South Africa… but things have not been better for the blacks then….. He said it was kind of ironic…..
So the moral of the story…. their is no clear cut solution…….
So c53k…what do you want… Anyway….your description of the Malays & natives are a bit offensive…. I think….. Too much condescending…… what is the connection bewteen Malays & natives and your argument that Malaysia is sliding backwards?
I think it is wrong to say such things… It is just plain bloody wrong! Malays and natives constitute the majority in Malaysia. Instead of making such remarks it would better to privide them a good example to follow… also if you want to change the country from this point (which you don’t like) to something which you like…. you got to have the cooperation of the majority…. or else…. you will forever keep complaining……
Allright……
I guess I better wait until the next long weekend, then I would hop into the buses.. and ask if any of the bus drivers have something to say about Phillippines! Ha ha ha…..
___________________________________________________
But for the record, I could not but loath c53k’s condescending comments about Malays and the natives! But then I better keep this discussion civil and refrain from typing bad words.
April 18th, 2006 at 3:38 am
Amit,
Too bad if you’re feeling offended.
The intention is only to put a complicated scenario into a proper prospective within an allowable length of writing. Corners have been cut but the facts & evidences are there for all to digest & expand.
Too many a time unscrupulous people have been using such a simplified fact to justify their arguments that M’sia is better for us than some other countries without seriously looking into the background facts.
Do enlighten me if my simplified version of the brief Indian history is factually wrong. Hopefully something good can be added to correct the wrongs.
There has no mention of the connection between Malay & natives & M’sia is sliding backward. Please read carefully & think!
Please do not interpret the points about the Malay & natives as condescending. There is no patronizing intended. This is only facts that one can be deduced from the records available. Further insights if you are interested can be inferred from the well written book; Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed by Jared Diamond.
Zimbabwe is a basket case of pure mismanagement, more so by Mugabe than Ian Smith. The White racist policy of the pre-Mugabe period cannot be condoned. Mugabe has brought more sufferings & atrocities to all the Zimbabwians via his majority vote, first obtaining through open election then later through vote manipulations.
I know Zimbabwe very well & my source is not only a migrant bus driver who has left the country too long to have any first hand knowledge.
See any similarities here between M’sia & Zimbabwe?
Now what do I want?
Just to correct some of the fallacies that have been repeated & taken out of context to justify the ends. In another word substance must be prevailed over form.
I’m not a prophet of doom. Where can I see that M’sia is sliding? Well, look at how Malaya University gets run down through the years. The prime institution that used to produce top-grade graduants is now ranked outside top 100 in Asia.
A country needs knowledgeable work-forces to progress & compete. This is even more so in the present circumstances where knowledge is the key for the true foundation of the nation. With the present set of unemployable graduates can we as a nation compete & feel comfortable? Can the country depends on these graduates to progress? The writing is indeed on the wall.
If we don’t reverse the trend we can only see the sliding backward getting faster. Then we can really share the feelings when the Indians of the near future passing the same comments as Amit had about India now M’sia then.
April 18th, 2006 at 5:02 am
Yea… I am offended by you….
Not only you justify your uncouth remarks to the Malays and natives….
…..you also look too much into nationality….. and worse you sound elitist…..
So…. have you been living in Zimbabwe lately?
What’s wrong with relying on bus drivers for information…..? Yes….I am offended with your elitist attitude…
Yes… I mentioned somewhere long time ago…In this blog…. that I acknowledge one of the problems in Malaysia is the elitist attitude of some of its people……
Yes… and yet you talk about building a knowledgeable workforce! How ironic!!!!
I advise you to drop this elitist attitude… and acknowledge that even some bus drivers can know more about Africa than some of us do…..
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Allright…. so you read Diamond… his analysis and recommendations are not entirely new……..
Perhaps you should read: The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers by Paul Kennedy…
Or read this: The History of The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Robbert Gibbons… this one is a classic… I love it so much…..
And this one too… yes…. The Rise and Fall of British Empire by Lawrence James…
Any more suggestions c53k?
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And no…. I see no significant similarities in Zimbabwe and Malaysia….. each country and society has its own unique and idiosyncratic factors….. I think you have not read Diamond carefully !!!! What a shame!
Don’t you remember… Diamond compares Haiti and Dominican Republic…. two countries that share a border together… and yet you have the audacity to compare Malaysia and Zimbabwe…
Why not compare Malaysia to Thailand then ??????
April 18th, 2006 at 5:12 am
Ha ha ha…
A typo….. The History of The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire is written by Edward Gibbon…
Robert Gibbons is an economist……..
April 18th, 2006 at 6:07 am
One more…. before I log off…….
On India:
.. the motions for economic liberalization in India was put into motion in 1985 by Rajiv Gandhi…..
But some economist even argue that liberalization started in 1973…
and some even argued it was way back in 1966.. during Indira Gandhi’s time…
But some of more recent economists argue that the big bang for economic liberalization occured in 1990 or 1991…
No consensus…. but those dates are beyond your suggested time frames….
April 18th, 2006 at 6:42 pm
Amit,
I travel quite frequently to Southern Africa. Harere is my routine stops.
Nothing wrong with migrant bus driver to give opinion about the ex-country that has been left behind. But with no first hand knowledges & a biased past experiences how can a true, present whole picture of a country left behind long ago to be presented logically.
Ask yourself how long you’ve been in Oz to justify your understandings of the present day M’sia or for that matter Oz.
I like Diamond’ books. Since you like to qoute big authors have you read his fist book; Guns, Germs, and Steel ? It provides an alternative view to the falls of the past civilizations you’ve mentioned.
BTW in Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed, Diamond also compares quite a few other civilizations/countries that don’t share same boundary & yet have the same causes of failures. Or are you just skimpped through the covers & pick what you like?
Incidentally, what are the quoting of those big fat volumes for. FYI I ‘ve covered some from cover to cover in my works.
Don’t you think you’re a closet elitist? Please do reflect on this. Ha! talk about spitting skywards & get own face smeared.
Your quote of those Indian dates bear no significances to my analysis. I’m only interested in the substance. At what time has the policy brings good to the Indians at large? This phenomenon only really happened in the past 5 years, at least to me. Those years that you mentioned were just political talks & no walks.
I didn’t realise that my attend to correct some frequent quoted mistakes can provoke Amit into such a frenzy. Tere is just no point to continue this discussion if no new insights from others are present.
April 19th, 2006 at 12:38 am
So… you have visited Harare… good on you…
Frenzy… yes….. perhaps….
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I mention Diamond compared Haiti to Dominican Republic….. don’t you get what I am trying to say? I am trying to question you comparing Malaysia to Zimbabwe by using something I thought you will be familiar…. i.e. Diamond…. but then… here you are saying all this and all that……..
Of course there are problems in Malaysia… like in Universiti Malaya…. like MAS… like the corporate sector… like the public which is not efficient etc, etc…..but I think all countries have problems somewhere some how…
Surely you must have noticed that in your extensive travels!
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Of course, if one loves the country one would do something to alleviate and solve the problems…
But saying Malaysia is going downhill and solving the ever so many national problems are two very different things….
April 19th, 2006 at 4:08 am
Hi Amit:
I have read and heard that in India, corruption is rife. Indonesia has a very high corruption index and in China, too, is gradually moving towards the concept free-market, and corruption seems to have caught up too. But India and China are experiencing robust economic growths but you can hardly say that for Indonesia. Down south, Singapore, with hardly any natural resources, has been ahead of Malaysia, economically that is. Even though bestowed with bountiful of natural resources, from education to managing public companies, we seemed to have screwed up. What do you think could be the probable reasons?
Well, there are always guys like me who have tried and have been continuously denied the opportunity to “serve” this country, basically with the race card thrown at me. Look around yourself and tell me as honestly as you can be whether, under such circumstances, I would have reasons to love this country? Unless you have a different definition for that word “love”. What difference does it make to us whether a monkey or a donkey rules this land. Life just goes on as my dad would say, we never had independence. It is just that the dignity one has been robbed off under the British remains unabated under the present regime. Could, then, your suggestion “to do something” hold water?
April 19th, 2006 at 1:46 pm
Dear all
Let’s not throw stones at other nations on corruption. Let’s take a look at the Malaysian scene. Ask ourself, is corruption in Malaysia a reality or is it a myth? Is corruption in Malaysia widespread or is it subtle.
Corruption in Malaysia is real and widespread; from the lowly civil servant to the policeman and right up to the top of the heap. Corruption comes under different guise, gifts, rewards, kopi o money, and at the top in the form of election contribution and contribution to political party coffers. Some are requested subtlly while more often than not are disguised as “nak settle kah?” Whatever form it comes in, the underlying issue is corruption. However there are two sides to the coin, the giver and the taker. If the giver is reluctant to give then the taker will be discouraged from asking. If the giver is the main proponent but the taker is honest, there will be no corruption. But how do you handle the dishing out of Mega projects with the terms that the successful company will give a certain percentage to the political parties. I can’t imagine the political parties in Malaysia spending hundred of millions of ringgit for the election.
April 21st, 2006 at 12:54 am
I agree…. corruption is a real problem in Malaysia.
And reducing that will benefit the country…
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To Fair Malaysian…
I did not mean to denigrate your contribution to the country….
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But just to think about it….. if we all really believe in globalisation and free market… which underlies many of M Bakri suggestions to reform Malaysia, then the idea of loving a country (or any country) is then a matter of taste….
This is true of love in general… you cannot force love…. whether the object is a person… and even a country….
But of course we live in an imperfect globalisation…. globalisation nowadays is good for big capital (big corporates) who can move capital around the globe at relative ease…….
But people, especially small people are more or less stuck and face daily hassles…. they (many of them) cannot just re-locate, or move their headquarters… houses.. or place or residence….
for example in Australia… though it says it promotes free market is rather hypocritical in terms of migration…… for example, it is extremely difficult let say for a Universiti Malaya accounting graduate to apply for a good job here…. and the process of getting a job and a PR is actually a hassle….
But I suppose… we the current generation can think in terms of future generations… equip your childrens with the necessary skills and wealth so that they can participate globalisation in a meaningful manner……
Maybe they can move around much more freer than we do… and they will complain less because they are not chained or trap to circumstances….
Perhaps then we may have the satisfaction… of seeing our offsprings… children and grandchildren… free from the shackles of restrictive boundaries, false nationalism and the (corrupt) elites of this country.
April 21st, 2006 at 12:56 am
Sorry… the comment above:…April 21st, 2006 at 12:54 am.. is my comment….
I was typing and then the phone rang…. I accidentally press the submit icon……
November 11th, 2006 at 1:19 am
Dave
Interesting topic… I’m working in this industry myself and I don’t agree about this in 100%, but I added your page to my bookmarks and hope to see more interesting articles in the future
November 11th, 2006 at 4:20 am
Dave
Interesting topic… I’m working in this industry myself and I don’t agree about this in 100%, but I added your page to my bookmarks and hope to see more interesting articles in the future
November 11th, 2006 at 7:24 am
Dave
Interesting topic… I’m working in this industry myself and I don’t agree about this in 100%, but I added your page to my bookmarks and hope to see more interesting articles in the future
November 11th, 2006 at 10:23 am
Dave
Interesting topic… I’m working in this industry myself and I don’t agree about this in 100%, but I added your page to my bookmarks and hope to see more interesting articles in the future
November 11th, 2006 at 1:27 pm
Dave
Interesting topic… I’m working in this industry myself and I don’t agree about this in 100%, but I added your page to my bookmarks and hope to see more interesting articles in the future
February 3rd, 2007 at 7:05 am
skin care schools…
Finally someone rants about this. Why don’t you also come to my skin…